There is something about Natalia Terfa‘s new book, It All Counts, that feels like coming home to me. It’s probably because, like many of us, for decades, I have been taught that being with God, experiencing the presence of the Holy Spirit, being a Christian must look a certain way. There’s a formula for how we go about doing such things and if it doesn’t fit tidily within certain parameters, it doesn’t count. (For an Enneagram 1, this can be particularly difficult to break free from.) Natalia (also an Enneagram 1) asks a lot of questions about why that is and how we can experience God in ways that don’t fit some of the traditional modes we’ve grown accustomed to.
Highlights from this conversation for me include: liturgy as communal confession; letting someone else have faith for us when we don’t, and vice versa; backyard baptisms; looking up; and the joy of World Cup fan celebrations!
Mentioned in this episode:
It All Counts: Finding God Everywhere They Told You Not to Look by Natalia Terfa
Cafeteria Christian podcast
Book launch on July 16, 2026 in Minneapolis, MN
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